Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

03/29/2006 02:00 PM Senate HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES


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02:03:48 PM Start
02:04:38 PM Overview Update: Avian Flu - Department of Environmental Conservation, Department of Fish and Game, Department of Health and Social Services
02:48:32 PM Overview: Personal Care Attendant Program - Department of Health and Social Services
03:14:04 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Time Change --
+ Overview Update: Avian Flu TELECONFERENCED
Department of Environmental Conservation
Department of Fish and Game
Department of Health and Social Services
+ Overview: Personal Care Attendant Program TELECONFERENCED
Department of Health & Social Services
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                               
                         March 29, 2006                                                                                         
                           2:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Fred Dyson, Chair                                                                                                       
Senator Gary Wilken, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
Senator Charlie Huggins                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Overview Update:  Avian Flu - Department of Environmental                                                                       
Conservation, Department of Fish and Game, Department of Health                                                                 
and Social Services                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Overview:  Personal Care Attendant Program - Department of                                                                      
Health and Social Services                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
KARLEEN JACKSON, Commissioner                                                                                                   
Department of Health &                                                                                                          
  Social Services                                                                                                               
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Avian Flu issues.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR. RICHARD MANDSAGER, Director                                                                                                 
Division of Public Health                                                                                                       
Department of Health &                                                                                                          
  Social Services                                                                                                               
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Avian Flu issues.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MATT ROBUS, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK  99802-5226                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Avian Flu issues.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR. ROBERT GERLACH, State Veterinarian                                                                                          
Division of Environmental Health                                                                                                
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801-1795                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Avian Flu issues.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JANET CLARKE, Assistant Commissioner                                                                                            
Finance and Management Services                                                                                                 
Department of Health &                                                                                                          
  Social Services                                                                                                               
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION   STATEMENT:  Commented   on  Personal   Care  Attendant                                                             
Program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JON SHERWOOD                                                                                                                    
Office of Program Review                                                                                                        
Department of Health &                                                                                                          
  Social Services                                                                                                               
PO Box 110601                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99801-0601                                                                                                          
POSITION   STATEMENT:  Commented   on  Personal   Care  Attendant                                                             
Program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRED DYSON  called the Senate Health,  Education and Social                                                             
Services  Standing  Committee meeting  to  order  at 2:03:48  PM.                                                             
Present  were Senators  Donny  Olson, Kim  Elton  and Chair  Fred                                                               
Dyson.   Senators  Gary  Wilken  and Lyda  Green  arrived as  the                                                               
meeting  was  in progress.    Also  in attendance  were  Senators                                                               
Bettye Davis and Charlie Huggins.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:04:38 PM                                                                                                                    
   ^Overview Update:  Avian Flu - Department of Environmental                                                               
Conservation, Department of Fish and Game, Department of Health                                                             
                      and Social Services                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRED DYSON  announced  that the  committee  would hear  an                                                               
overview update on avian flu.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KARLEEN JACKSON,  Commissioner, Department  of Health  and Social                                                               
Services  (DHSS),  reminded  members that  the  Governor  through                                                               
Administrative Order 228  has asked all the  state departments to                                                               
coordinate  together to  be prepared  for  the event  there is  a                                                               
pandemic influenza.  Alaskans need  to understand  the difference                                                               
between the two kinds of flu,  influenza or the bird flu, and how                                                               
they  might be  related.   To help  with that  preparation, three                                                               
state experts were  present - Dr. Richard  Mandsager, Director of                                                               
the Division of Public Health,  Matt Robus, Director, Division of                                                               
Wildlife Conservation,  and Dr. Bob Gerlach,  State Veterinarian,                                                               
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC).                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:06:21 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  RICHARD  MANDSAGER,  Director, Division  of  Public  Health,                                                               
Department  of Health  and Social  Services,  updated members  by                                                               
setting the  stage for  them to  differentiate human  issues from                                                               
bird  issues and  why  they  are connected.  He  pointed out  the                                                               
websites -  AvianFlu.alaska.gov and PandemicFlu.alaska.gov.   The                                                               
website  is  updated  every Monday  afternoon  and  included  new                                                               
reports if worldwide situations change.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN arrived at 2:08:57 PM.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:09:07 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  MANDSAGER related  that all  the information  and frequently                                                               
asked questions about wild birds  and the influenza A, H5N1 virus                                                               
was on  the websites.   Transmission of  the virus from  birds to                                                               
human  has  an  almost  50 percent  mortality  rate  consistently                                                               
across countries.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:10:23 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. MANDSAGER  said another reason  for concern is  that previous                                                               
pandemics have been  caused by influenza A viruses  and we should                                                               
assume there will be three pandemics  in this century.  H5N1 is a                                                               
legitimate threat if it develops human-to-human transmission.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Last year  public health  law was  updated giving  the department                                                               
significant authority  over human health  and this year,  HB 380,                                                               
the  animal companion  gives the  appropriate authorities  to the                                                               
department for animal  disease control. Many of  the new diseases                                                               
on the  human side are zoontic  diseases - they either  come from                                                               
animals or  they are transmitted  back and forth from  animals to                                                               
humans.  Both   sets  of  authorities   are  needed   to  protect                                                               
communities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:12:23 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  MANDSAGER showed  a world  map of  the spread  of the  virus                                                               
dated March  24, 2006. In  October, it was confined  to Southeast                                                               
Asia  and  then  moved  eastward   into  Europe.  Most  of  those                                                               
countries have  had the disease in  wild birds - a  few countries                                                               
have had  it in  poultry. Human disease  is much  more scattered.                                                               
Southeast  countries were  filling  in rapidly.  The question  is                                                               
will Alaska see this virus in birds?                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He  reported that  the multi-agency  coordinating committee  that                                                               
was created  in response to  the Governor's  administrative order                                                               
is  now functional.  Some organizations  were  meeting every  two                                                               
weeks to drive  the planning work. Community  outreach visits and                                                               
working with communities would be launched next week.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:14:23 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. MANDSAGER said  if this becomes a  human disease, communities                                                               
would have to  become largely self-reliant. It  would become hard                                                               
to share  people between  communities where  power infrastructure                                                               
and airplane services are essential  to get workers and medicines                                                               
where they need to go.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:15:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MATT ROBUS,  Director, Division of Wildlife  Conservation, Alaska                                                               
Department  of  Fish and  Game  (ADF&G),  said his  division  was                                                               
becoming more and  more involved in the bird  issues. He reported                                                               
that  it  is  still  primarily  a  disease  of  birds  and  first                                                               
developed  in the  domestic  poultry of  Southeast  Asia. It  has                                                               
moved  back into  wild bird  populations  and has  caused a  fair                                                               
amount of  mortality there. As wildlife  managers, the department                                                               
was very concerned about that.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN arrived at 2:16:36 PM.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:16:43 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. ROBUS  said the Homeland  Security Department has  convened a                                                               
collaborative   effort   between    several   different   federal                                                               
departments,  including Alaska  wildlife  managers,  to plan  for                                                               
early detection of H5N1. It is  not certain that wild birds would                                                               
bring the  virus in, but since  Alaska is at the  intersection of                                                               
Asian and  North American  flyways, and  since we  send migratory                                                               
birds throughout all four continental  U.S. flyways, if we do get                                                               
it by  wild birds, it  would be a national  issue in terms  of it                                                               
begin carried elsewhere.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:17:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. ROBUS said  they had started sampling for the  virus in 1998,                                                               
though  in smaller  way. More  recently, a  University of  Alaska                                                               
study was  piggybacked with government divisions  to sample 8,000                                                               
or 9,000  birds and none has  come back positive.   This group of                                                               
agencies put together a national  strategic sampling plan for the                                                               
early detection  of the Asian strain  of H5N1 and Alaska  put its                                                               
own sampling  plan together  to gather  15,000 samples  from wild                                                               
birds during the coming season  - focused on priority species and                                                               
habitats. He  said the state has  been divided up and  teams will                                                               
work in different locations.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He  said  the  teams  will  obtain  samples  through  five  basic                                                               
strategies:  1) catch live birds  and doing a tracheal or cloacae                                                               
swab;  2)  collect  hunter-killed  birds,  both  subsistence  and                                                               
regular fall season; 3) prepare  teams of people ready to respond                                                               
to reported mortality and morbidity  events and do necropsies; 4)                                                               
sample environment  - water  and fecal  samples, because  that is                                                               
how it would  spread between birds; 5) put sentinel  birds out in                                                               
a cage and then test them later  to see if they had picked up the                                                               
disease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:21:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. ROBUS said  in the meantime there is no  reason to think it's                                                               
here and it is highly likely that  it will be detected if it gets                                                               
here.  Strategies for  avoiding bird  flu include  wearing rubber                                                               
gloves   when  cleaning   wild  birds   or  gathering   eggs  for                                                               
subsistence, avoiding eating or  drinking while cleaning birds or                                                               
putting fingers  in your mouth  or on  your face and  making sure                                                               
the work  surfaces are  clean. Meat from  birds should  be cooked                                                               
all the way through, which destroys disease organisms.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:24:11 PM                                                                                                                    
ROBERT   GERLACH,   DVM,    State   Veterinarian,   Division   of                                                               
Environmental  Health, Department  of Environmental  Conservation                                                               
(DEC), said  that a coordinated, collaborative  effort consisting                                                               
of  the  state's  three  agencies  and  the  U.S.  Department  of                                                               
Agriculture  has organized  outreach education,  surveillance and                                                               
response. H5N1  has not been  found in North America  where there                                                               
has  been previous  sampling. No  pathogenic avian  influenza has                                                               
been  found in  Alaska.  He mentioned  that low-pathogen  viruses                                                               
have been found, but cause very little disease in wild birds.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
His  concern was  that  migrating wild  birds  would bring  avian                                                               
influenza into  the state  where it would  infect other  wild and                                                               
domestic birds.  When people have  been affected by H5N1,  it has                                                               
been through contact  with domestic poultry. In  Alaska they have                                                               
focused on educating people about preventing the disease.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Alaska has  two-dozen or fewer commercial  poultry operations and                                                               
they are not  similar to operations in the Lower  48 where people                                                               
have  to  scrub in  and  out,  for  instance, to  avoid  disease.                                                               
Another  concern was  backyard  birds for  eating, exhibition  or                                                               
pets. The  third population was  indoor pets that can  be exposed                                                               
by  things that  are brought  into the  home from  outside.   The                                                               
virus can  be contracted through  fecal excretion and  brought in                                                               
on  shoes, for  example. He  has recommended  a list  of ways  to                                                               
maintain a  clean environment for  domestic birds  by restricting                                                               
access to wild birds.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:28:45 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. GERLACH  said the  state is developing  the capacity  to test                                                               
for avian  flu at the  Environmental Health Lab in  Anchorage and                                                               
the USDA is doing sampling around  airports as well. The focus is                                                               
on  interaction  of wild  with  domestic  stock.  He said  it  is                                                               
important  to provide  the public  with a  consistent message  on                                                               
this issue.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:30:42 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. GERLACH  said the state's  response plan is  well coordinated                                                               
and he exhibited previous outreach  materials including a booklet                                                               
of wildlife diseases  that hunters might see.  Passage  of HB 380                                                               
was  important because  it  extends his  authority  to deal  with                                                               
avian flu in pet birds.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:31:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DONNY  OLSON  asked  what the  chances  are  that  other                                                               
animals like cats and dogs would pick up the virus.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GERLACH  replied  that  domestic  and  exotic  cats  can  be                                                               
infected by the  virus. In Germany, a Stone  Martin was affected.                                                               
In New Zealand,  weasels, rabbits and rats have  been infected as                                                               
an  experiment in  a controlled  environment.   Pigs  are also  a                                                               
susceptible species. So, surveillance is  needed in both wild and                                                               
domestic animals.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:33:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR OLSON asked what the chances were of it affecting fish.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. GERLACH replied that this  virus usually affects warm-blooded                                                               
animals.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:34:24 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR OLSON said  that it seemed like a tracheal  swab would be                                                               
difficult to do on birds.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. MANDSAGER  replied that he didn't  mean to say that.  What he                                                               
meant to say was that the  ability to collect samples from people                                                               
who might be infected with H5N1 needs to be in place.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OLSON asked  if some birds should not be  eaten by people                                                               
living a subsistence lifestyle.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. MANDSAGER replied that the birds  could be cooked and eaten -                                                               
so long as the secretions were clear and not bloody.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:35:46 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. MANDSAGER clicked  on birds and animals - hunter  safety - on                                                               
the  website   to  demonstrate  where   to  find   safe  handling                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:36:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  ROBUS pointed  out  the booklet  that  has the  department's                                                               
safety  guidelines.  He  emphasized  that  the  department  needs                                                               
people's help in  observing and reporting sick or  dead birds. He                                                               
said the  Fish and Wildlife Service  is hosting a toll  free line                                                               
for Alaska calls - 1-866-5BRDFLU.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:38:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  asked if the  bird flu  has reached the  Russian Far                                                               
East.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROBUS  replied that  he  was  not  familiar with  the  exact                                                               
locations or the extent of the  sampling there. He does know that                                                               
large shorebirds are currently migrating  up the eastern coast of                                                               
Asian and are  headed for the western part,  the Seward Peninsula                                                               
and the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta  in Alaska. He reiterated there has                                                               
not been a documented case of  a person getting this disease from                                                               
a wild  bird and that it  doesn't jump easily from  wild birds to                                                               
humans.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:39:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  DYSON asked  what birds  come to  Alaska from  the exposed                                                               
areas.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBUS replied Curlews and  Godwits from the shorebird family.                                                               
Pacific  Black  Brant  populations   have  a  direct  interchange                                                               
between  North  America  and  Asia; the  Northern  Pintail  is  a                                                               
dabbling  duck that  goes all  over the  Arctic and  hops between                                                               
continents.   A  potential problem,  if the  virus gets  here and                                                               
gets  into our  water bodies,  is  that breeding  ducks from  the                                                               
Lower 48 could carry it south.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:40:41 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON asked  how long  it takes  to turn  a sample  from                                                               
fieldwork.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROBUS replied  there are  screening and  confirmation steps.                                                               
The  initial screening  has a  24-hour result  for a  presumptive                                                               
positive for this  type of virus. However, to confirm  that it is                                                               
actually H5N1,  it has to  go to the USDA  lab in Ames,  Iowa and                                                               
that test takes  up to a week or so.  The agency's response would                                                               
intensify with a positive indication.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:42:03 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked if the  presumptive level gets reached in the                                                               
initial  screening,   is  the  agency  response   more  intensive                                                               
studying or is there a public component.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBUS replied  that in terms of managing wild  birds, none of                                                               
the  agencies involved  think the  spread of  the virus  would be                                                               
halted through culling  massive populations of wild  birds. If it                                                               
is found in  wild birds, the wildlife management part  of this is                                                               
trying to  determine the  prevalence and monitor  it as  it moves                                                               
around the continent.  On the public side, the  response would be                                                               
the department  modifying its advice on  how to use wild  birds -                                                               
possibly through  regulatory action  on hunts in  certain places.                                                               
Protection of domestic  birds and animals and  human health would                                                               
also be a concern.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MANDSAGER added  that  this  issue is  the  subject of  much                                                               
discussion. First they would need  to be reasonably sure that the                                                               
presumptive   is  probably   true   through   more  sampling.   A                                                               
presumptive sample should not be  kept a secret while waiting for                                                               
confirmation.  Europe,  for  instance,  notifies  the  public  of                                                               
presumptive positives and that confirmation  is being awaited. He                                                               
thought  one of  the  things  that was  done  wrong  in the  1918                                                               
pandemic was that governments didn't  tell the truth and lost the                                                               
confidence of the people.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR.  GERLACH added  that  his response  would  be different  with                                                               
respect  to domestic  poultry,  because  initially, a  quarantine                                                               
would be set up that would  halt movement of the animals form the                                                               
premise.  Nothing  would  be done  about  eradication  until  the                                                               
disease was confirmed. Whether it  would be high pathogen H5N1 or                                                               
the North  American version, the low-pathogen  H5N1 strain, would                                                               
be reported.  Either would result  in a quarantine and hold order                                                               
on  the  birds.  If  it  were confirmed,  those  birds  would  be                                                               
depopulated.   Once the USDA  test is  done, it gets  reported to                                                               
the World Animal Health Organization.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:45:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  said that Dr.  Gerlach informed him that  without HB
380,  he would  not  have authority  in  the non-domestic  animal                                                               
kingdom, which is one of the reasons it is a priority.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DR. GERLACH agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:45:59 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  HUGGINS said  he comes  from  a duck  hunting family,  a                                                               
number of whom died in the  1918 pandemic and it appears that the                                                               
disease shows up more in people  that handle poultry and not much                                                               
in wild birds.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MANDSAGER  assured  him  that   was  correct.  The  European                                                               
experience over  the last four  months confirms that.  There have                                                               
been a lot of positive  wild birds scattered across many European                                                               
countries, but  almost no  domestic poultry  has been  affected -                                                               
most likely because  of better practices in taking  care of birds                                                               
in developed countries. There has been  no human spread at all in                                                               
European countries.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:47:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  thanked them for  the diligence they are  showing in                                                               
being prepared for what we all hope doesn't happen.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:47:57 PM                                                                                                                    
  ^Overview:  Personal Care Attendant Program - Department of                                                               
                   Health and Social Services                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON announced  that the committee would  hear an overview                                                               
on the Personal Care Attendant Program (PCA).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:48:32 PM                                                                                                                    
JANET  CLARKE,  Assistant  Commissioner, Finance  and  Management                                                               
Services,  Department  of Health  and  Social  Services, and  JON                                                               
SHERWOOD, Office  of Program Review,  DHSS, said they  would give                                                               
the department's presentation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON  recapped that  from the last  meeting it  seems that                                                               
the PCA  program has grown far  more quickly than others  and the                                                               
cost  per  client seemed  disproportionate.    He asked  if  more                                                               
people  were  enrolled  and  being  subsidized  through  the  PCA                                                               
program than should be.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CLARKE  answered  by providing  the  committee  most  recent                                                               
information from Alaska in 2002  and some analysis that consisted                                                               
basically   of  two   spreadsheets.  Tripling   of  the   average                                                               
expenditure  per recipient  from  2001 to  2002  was the  largest                                                               
growth of the program; there has been modest growth since.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
She also  mentioned a letter she  sent to the committee  on March                                                               
21 after the presentation on  PCA regulations and that included a                                                               
legal-sized  chart of  March 2005  data  that shows  how the  new                                                               
changes in  Alaska regulations compared  to what is  happening in                                                               
other states.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
She explained that  before April, one had to have  only one daily                                                               
living activity  to qualify for  PCA assistance and now  you need                                                               
two. All hours  of service now need a  prior authorization; other                                                               
states have caps.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:53:20 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CLARKE admitted  that the department had not done  a good job                                                               
in  projecting this  program. It  missed  the mark  in the  early                                                               
years when it was growing so fast.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON  added there were  no controls  on who could  use the                                                               
program either.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLARKE agreed  and said the projected savings  in their March                                                               
21 memo was very conservative.  She said that as regulations were                                                               
implemented,  their effects  would  be  assessed. If  individuals                                                               
were denied any level of service,  they would have the right to a                                                               
fair hearing and an appeal.  Services continue until they exhaust                                                               
those remedies.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:55:05 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CLARKE  explained they also  have to  deal with the  issue of                                                               
the growing senior  population.  Even if some  people are dropped                                                               
off the  program, more seniors  are coming who would  qualify for                                                               
it. She said  it was possible for this program  to save more than                                                               
$17  million,  but she  wanted  to  be  cautious because  of  the                                                               
growing  senior population.  The newly  implemented SB  41 audits                                                               
have caused  a flattening out  of expenditures for  personal care                                                               
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLARKE cautioned  that she did not want seniors  on the older                                                               
Alaskan  waiver  to  be  harmed  through  implementation  of  the                                                               
regulations and  that good  monitoring was  needed. In  its memo,                                                               
the department also recommended  providing interim reports to the                                                               
Legislature  - on  July 15  and September  30, for  instance. She                                                               
said the  regulations have not all  gone into effect yet,  so she                                                               
didn't have hard data to do projections with.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:58:25 P                                                                                                                     
SENATOR WILKEN thanked  her for her timely response  to the March                                                               
2 request. The  thing that scares him is that  the data they have                                                               
takes them  only to the 2002  chart and that's just  when the new                                                               
program kicked in.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     So,  if  we  think  we   haven't  even  gotten  to  the                                                                    
     expensive  part, yet,  where we  climbed 180  percent a                                                                    
     year for  five years.... if  we look at  this chart....                                                                    
     Alaska is  spending $13,800 per  person before  our new                                                                    
     program  kicks in.  So,  I looked  at  other states;  I                                                                    
     looked at  Arizona. They offer  much more than  what we                                                                    
     offer  and they  are  spending $3,300,  plus or  minus.                                                                    
     Idaho  is offering  much more  vision, hearing,  brain,                                                                    
     HIV, dementia  - they're offering  a suite  of coverage                                                                    
     in  their state  and they're  at $6,600.  And we're  at                                                                    
     $13,000,  almost $14,000.  Montana -  they offer  about                                                                    
     what we offer  - they're at $8,000.  Washington - close                                                                    
     to us - about what we  offer - $7,500. The point being,                                                                    
     the numbers  just don't square on  what we're spending.                                                                    
     The question  is our coverage  seems to be  about where                                                                    
     other people are in our neck  of the woods and why does                                                                    
     it cost  us at least  twice as much? And  that's before                                                                    
     we get to the part where things really took off....                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN  said he thought  the regulations would  lower the                                                               
slope, which  they did, but it  just flattened out. It  didn't go                                                               
down.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:01:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. SHERWOOD  cautioned him  about looking  at personal  care and                                                               
isolation,  because different  states  use different  strategies.                                                               
Personal care  services in Alaska  are a state-plan  service that                                                               
is  available to  everybody that  needs it.  In some  states they                                                               
limit it  to offering it  through their home and  community based                                                               
waiver programs where  people must be at  the institutional level                                                               
of  care. Also,  the people  who receive  it may  have access  to                                                               
other supportive  services, as well.  A lot of other  states rely                                                               
much more heavily on nursing homes  to provide this kind of care.                                                               
Alaska has one of the lowest  utilization of nursing homes of any                                                               
state. He said, "Although $20,000  a year sounds pretty expensive                                                               
for personal care,  it's nothing compared to the  cost of nursing                                                               
homes. It's not a one-for-one trade-off."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHERWOOD explained that the  department's strategy is heavily                                                               
based on home and community-based  care. As a result, more people                                                               
who have  serious needs are  served through this program  than in                                                               
other states.  This is an  important component of the  answer. He                                                               
was hopeful that implementing a  standard assessment that will be                                                               
performed  by  an  independent   contractor  would  get  them  to                                                               
accurate  data  that  would  help   their  understanding  of  the                                                               
numbers. He also said the  department didn't want to over-project                                                               
the possible  savings because  of the  meteoric rise  in Alaska's                                                               
senior population.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:04:13 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON  recalled a  few years ago,  it seemed  that Alaskans                                                               
were  doing what  they should  with  taking care  of their  aging                                                               
parents and  relatives. Some of  those people would do  more, but                                                               
have  financial  constraints and  the  state  wants to  subsidize                                                               
those folks  a bit. However,  his sense  is that some  people are                                                               
getting paid  when they  don't really need  the money.  He didn't                                                               
know how to sort  for that kind of thing. He  has talked with Ms.                                                               
Clarke  for years  about how  foster parents  are needed,  but he                                                               
doesn't  want people  doing it  as a  moneymaking enterprise.  He                                                               
asked if there was any discussion  about this issue on a national                                                               
level.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:06:15 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. SHERWOOD replied:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The federal  government is  promoting a  program called                                                                    
     "Independence Plus,"  which has  a lot  of similarities                                                                    
     to  Alaska's consumer  directed personal  care program.                                                                    
     Most  states who  participate in  that program  sort of                                                                    
     agree up  front to a certain  kind of cap -  and states                                                                    
     calculate them  differently -  "Basically you  agree to                                                                    
     less total  service, have more  flexibility in  the way                                                                    
     you can spend  your money, more control  over it. These                                                                    
     require  the  use of  waivers,  which  bring their  own                                                                    
     administrative overhead.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He said  the state has  looked at those  things, but it  wants to                                                               
get control  of the program  it has now without  throwing another                                                               
piece into the mix.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:07:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR DYSON suggested  that their funding may get  capped at some                                                               
point and also encouraged them to continue looking for fraud.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLARKE  recapped that SB 41  did a lot for  the department as                                                               
far as  requiring audits and  those are  an integral part  of the                                                               
program.  Better communication  has been  established within  the                                                               
department, it  has an audit committee,  procedures and practices                                                               
are  being set  up  and the  Department of  Law  is helping  them                                                               
developing sanctions. The department  is doing significantly more                                                               
in that area than in the past.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:09:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON  said  he  was intrigued  by  comments  about  the                                                               
expanding  senior population.  He has  heard it  was growing  six                                                               
times the rate  of the younger population and he  wanted a better                                                               
idea of  the demographic changes  that are coming up,  because it                                                               
has  huge implications  to the  state  and how  services will  be                                                               
provided to  that group of people.  He also asked for  a tracking                                                               
of the history of nursing home  beds and the communities they are                                                               
in -  to get  some perspective  on the issue.  He also  wanted to                                                               
know how  nursing homes work  in Juneau in relation  to servicing                                                               
communities that don't have any, like Hoonah.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CLARKE responded  that she did a presentation  for the Senate                                                               
Finance Committee  and would be  happy to  meet with him  and his                                                               
staff to go over the study that has a 20-year horizon.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON said  that Dr. Mandsager reminded him  that while the                                                               
population  is growing  older, it  is also  living healthier  and                                                               
more competent  for a  longer period  of time.  The justification                                                               
for  helping seniors  should not  lock-step  with progression  in                                                               
age. He  asked them for any  information they would have  on that                                                               
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:12:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN urged  that this report needed to  be updated next                                                               
year to keep things going forward.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR DYSON said the committee  would write a letter for everyone                                                               
to  sign   asking  for  that   updated  report.  There   were  no                                                               
objections. There  being no further  business to come  before the                                                               
committee,  Chair Dyson  adjourned the  Senate Health,  Education                                                               
and Social Services Standing Committee meeting at 3:14:04 PM.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects